a friend response to my veganism

a friend response

I feel bad in a way writing this but this is an example of a reason why the blog is semi anonymous.  becoming vegan is a lifestyle change and it does impact on other people and how they relate to you. the only advice id give is dont give up. if youre making your secision for compassionate reasons and you feel inside it's right then just stay strong, keep getting the support you need and dont break down. it will come together.

ill call my friend Simon here.  Someone I actually still regard as one of my best friends and in fact when i came to nz was the one person i knew here which is why i found the response so difficult at the time. im happy that a year on this person and family now have a vege day of the week and 'accepts' my veganism while being blocked from heading in that direction himself.  i feel it's important to talk about this here again for me to keep my sanity, to connect with others who may have experienced the same and also just to show how big being vegan is and again how blind people sadly are right now a lot of the time to the beauty of it.  i hope we can find ways to help them learn.

On becoming vegetarian Simon's response was 'why?' like it wasn't a decision that seemed to make any rational sense.  i said how it was about compassionate living plus the diet was potentially healthier.  if he said the word 'funny' once in the conversation he must of said it about 4 or 5 times.  i regrettably didnt pull him up on it but none the less got through. it was just a phone conversation.  i remember though as much as it was 'partly' a joke finding it odd as he said something along the lines of ' you cant be vegan though, if you become vegan we cant be friends anymore.'  it was really strange and unsettling to hear that.  he can be dry and has silly humour but
it gave me a strange unsettling kind of feeling particularly since i was actually thinking of becoming vegan.  i thought well why would that impact on him anyway? as i enjoyed my new found health and lifestyle there were a few phone conversations some of which asked if i was
still vegetarian to which i obviously responded in the positive. it was the last one i remembered when i was asked this and responded 'ive actually been vegan for 3 weeks'.
i cant remember the rest of the conversation at all but i dont feel im exaggerating to say there was a strange unsettledness about the call then as if id somehow gone down
another path.  it was a strange feeling and one i hope we dont have again.


it was a few weeks later when he actually came to visit and we had a conversation which im sadly not sure i will ever forget and really displayed the whole issue of becoming
vegan and its whole place in society and how it impacts on others etc. my being vegan has produced some sort of divide in our friendship on a level and i dont think
until that time after actually being good friends for years and years id actually ever felt on such a level that was so completely and utterly removed from when my friend
was coming from. still  thinking back now the conversation just absolutely astounds me. maybe it was just an opening up of how different we really are im not sure but
we usually always have some familiarity but this time there wasn't any.

it was along the lines of. Simon: 'so this is just talking like, but do you disapprove of eating meat?'
Me: 'Well it seems its less healthy and less moral than not eating it. I'm seeing theres not much point.'
Simon: 'We got to where we are on the food chain by eating meat. We ate other animals so it makes sense we eat them.'
Me: 'Well actually humans are actually quite a lot more herbiverous in their body, there really doesnt seem much point.'
Simon: 'No, we're definitey omnivores, you see we have these teeth (points to corner teeth).  We're meant to eat meat.  Me and Emma (wife)
eat meat every day. There's 2 sides to every argument Phil.'

It was really interestung the last sentence keeping in mind this was at my home too just how incredibly defensive my friend was.  He cut off me saying about herbivore
characteristics of a human and about any health or moral impacts of veganism.  He also leaped to the strange claim that our corner teeth are omniverous and really
strikingly to me referred to an 'argument' and referred to me by name rather than the usual 'mate' etc. It felt very strange.

The conversation went on and became more bizarre in my view
Me: 'Well I'm just doing what I'm doing and enjoying it right now. It's been a good lifestyle.'
Simon: 'You see I was talking to Julie (housemate) and she really knows lots about food (I don't know why this person would know anything about food).  She says
that there aren't complete proteins if you dont eat animals.
Me: 'No its actually okay.  I have lots of friends who are vegetarian and you just eat different things.'
Simon: 'I mean if Emma asked me to go vegetarian for a month I'd say okay but if she wanted me to go vegan i'd want to know a really good reason.  I mean
the stereotope of someone who's vegan.'    
Simon went on to talk about an image of a man talking about not harming animals. Again I found the angle taken here absolutely bizarre.
Simon: 'If you think about eggs I mean you can get those eggs whereas chickens are treated really well and just roam around and their eggs are just picked up and they dont miss
them or anything.'
Me: 'I guess for me though it's still reinforcing eating eggs and I'm actually just not bothered about eating them.'
It's strange again the above the reinforcement on just not being vegan
Simon: 'So do you think you'd go back to eating eggs then?'
Me: 'Maybe I guess'. 
I actually said the above just to appease him a little bit as it was seeming a bit weird.
After this time I seriously felt this rift and just kept more to myself and my personal development group and kept up.  My friends said 'do't break down, just stay strong.'
there were strangely more responses i think via text.  Simon said 'Me and Emma reckon your vegan power will just last so long  then youll be digging into a steak soon.'
another said 'are you feeling all sad and depressed yet because of your unnatural diet?' i didnt buy into these
the last conversation i had i remember where my veganism was being judged was a phonecall when Simon said at the end: 'youre not still vegan are you?'  I took a breath and
calmly replied 'Okay, I'm very happily vegan and i dont have any plans to change that.'

i write this story in detail because it feels important in terms of how people respond to being vegan.  it highlights how reopening ally good well meaning people like Simon are
just not aware and are just in denial regarding what we eat.  I hypothesise that the responses here which I wrote in detail are part of our knowing deep down somewhere that
what we are doing is wrong but its just too big a thing to acknowledge. my veganism was threatening to him and is threatening to him. im sure of it.  it threatens a reality.

i read a post on facebook and i cant remember the author but it was along the lines of that it is easier to trick someone that convince someone that they have indeed been tricked.
i feel people in society who eat animals ad their secretions fit into this.  they have simply been tricked and brainwashed. they don't want to know otherwise a lot of the time.
the response here makes me interested in what will happen back in the uk with othert friends and my needing to write here to stay good and strong in me.  i know
im on the right path and i wont give up whatever anyone says. being in reality is what is important to me.  i will write here about how i get on similarly.

natural argument and harming plants

The natural argument is always a stupid one. People saying that we are naturally something. This annoys me in a few ways. Firstly it annoys me since the human body does not have any omnivorous features.  The only think ive found omnivorous about a human is some production of stomach acid for digestion which is similar to an omnivore.  However in teeth, hands, digestive tract, the way the mouth opens we have all the traits of a herbivore. Meat eaters often point to our corner teeth
but these are still herbivore teeth. They are not for plunging into a cows neck and eating raw flesh.

Evolution seems to show that eating meat has perhaps been helpful at a certain point. In just my view and in reference to literature such as 'spiritual partnership by Gary Zukav' I would say that eating meat is a stage we are passing through spiritually whereas we change from a power over to a more authentic type of power based on communion.

The China study is interesting in its' conclusion that the optimum human diet is a vegan diet with a source of b12 and an added source of vitamin d should one reside in a colder climate.  Some of the evidence can be interpreted a bit differently in that study i feel.  I prefer books like diet for a new America which show all the illnesses linked with eating animal flesh and secretions.

I'm liking the way it is becoming studied by Psychologists. Dr Zab. Psychiatry for a mad world' seems really interesting. I want to get a full copy but haven't been able to yet.  The conclusion that eating meat is a psychopathic act. Similarly Steven Harnad comes to similar conclusions. The idea is that since there is no reason to eat an animal then to do so or to be involved in the murder of an animal is a psychopathic act. Seems a reasonable conclusion.

Saying something is natural is not only frustrating in the sense that our body has practically zero omnivorous qualities but also in the sense it is like giving away power. It seems to me like someone saying to their partner it's natural for me to cheat. it seems time to take charge and really take responsibility. To show respect for ourselves as individuals connected to the world we are in and make good conscious choices.

The other one about what about ripping plants out of the ground? Well there is some point there.  Maybe that does also hurt a plant.  We know though that we can live without consuming sentient beings with a central nervous system. Perhaps in the future we wont have to harm plants either. maybe we'll find a way to fully live on fruit but right now that does seem totally unrealistic.  We know we can thrive as vegans.

The problem seems to be to support people to have a shift in mindset and realise all the great food out there and that we do not cut out but we crowd out and we eat better.  I always feel that we do not miss out on anything that's worth putting in a humans mouth.